Eastern Cape judge president Selby Mbenenge says when he asked Andiswa Mengo to “remove the top part” (her jacket) in one of the pictures she sent to him as they were exchanging messages, was because he wanted to appreciate her appearance.
According to Mbenenge, he was not trying to “denude” her.
He said this in response to the evidence leader Adv Jennifer Scheepers who asked why he escalated their interaction by asking Mengo to remove the top part in his quest of asking for photos.
“I just wanted to appreciate her appearance, because as far as I was concerned, the jacket was obstructive. Obstructive in the sense that it doesn't give me a full perspective and view of how she looked,” he explained.
The conversation was over a series of messages in which he repeatedly requested photographs from Mengo.
The Judicial Conduct Tribunal is probing allegations of sexual harassment against Mbenenge from Mengo.
Scheepers also mentioned that Mengo had earlier testified that she had interpreted the request as an instruction to undress her upper body for the picture.
However, Mbenenge rejected that interpretation.
“I did not understand it that way. I’m the one who said it. Afford me the opportunity to explain myself,” he said.
When Scheepers pressed further, asking, “Obstructive of what? What did you want to see more of?”, Mbenenge replied: “I’ve explained.
“If I stand up and I am wearing a jacket you may not see how I am structured. I wanted to see how she is made up. I was not denuding her.
Mbenenge also denied that Mengo was trying to avoid sending pictures.
He disputed her testimony that she made excuses such as claiming her phone had deleted the photos or that she was at the gym to avoid complying with his requests.
“Her testimony flies in the face of what I am reading here,” said Mbenenge. “Sitting where I am today, I cannot find anything in the form of a rebuff. On the contrary, I find cooperation between two adults in the context of what was discussed here.”
Scheepers, however, challenged that view, arguing that Mbenenge had failed to “read the room” and ignored the complainant’s clear reluctance. “You ignored what you did not want to accept but simply read what you wanted,” she told him.
Mbenenge maintained his position and flatly responded, “I disagree.”
Scheepers put it plainly: “Would you agree that even suggesting this type of image removing the top part to see the structure of her body especially in the absence of a personal relationship and in the presence of professional hierarchy, amounts to sexual harassment?”
“I disagree,” Mbenenge responded.
Scheepers pressed on, pointing out that Mengo did not comply with the request but Mbenenge countered: “She did adhere to my request to share pictures. She did send a picture to me.”
The hearing continues.
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